Death Battle: Superman vs Goku

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Originally Posted by xxDeadxPoolxx

Blanka ATE Pikachu. Can't get much more one sided than that.

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Well, if you look at the reasoning for the match-up and such, I can't really say it's that one-sided when they were both pretty even with electric resistance and the fact that Pikachu was way faster than Blanka.

(I'm kind of iffy about Blanka resisting Iron Tail though. I know electric based beings in the pokemon universe resist steel, but is that a feature only specific to pokemon which Blanka obviously isn't, or is it a feature of the attack it self to electric beings? I guess it could go either way.)

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

I see whats going on. Why don't we make several battles of the two at different times. I don't know Goku that well, so someone can figure out which Goku can face which Superman.

Pre Crisis Superman at his inception.
Overpowered later pre-crisis Superman
Crisis Superman
Early Post-Crisis Superman
Superman before N52.
Current New 52 Superman.

Now, someone figure out which Goku corresponds to each Supes so we can stop arguing about continuity and actually debate the fricking battles, because while I understand the issue, and also agree we should make sure that we don't have current Goku face old Superman.

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Goku doesn't have eras or versions. He's still the same.

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Originally Posted by Lohuydahutt

Good thing your whole point is based off of a definition of canon that isn't actually the definition of canon. If it was decided by Shakespeare or whatever that Andrew's version was the definitive version of Romeo and Juliet's story, then it's the definitive version of Romeo and Juliet.

"The term 'canon' can be used either as a noun, referring to "the original work from which the fan fiction author borrows," or as an adjective to describe whether or not certain elements are accepted as authoritative parts of the fictional universe." -Wikipedia

It's not about the original vision, but the UP TO DATE information. What the original author had in mind may seem important to you but it means literally nothing in Death Battle. You might as well be arguing the same point about every other Death Battle, but that's simply not what's most important when you're looking for a definitive answer.

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Both authors of Superman are dead now since the 90's. And according to the information they lost the copyrights of superman in the first 10 years against the pre-DC Comics. Their vision of the character was what I already posted and that should be considered canon by you too because all the powers and information that appeared after that was stated by DC Comics and apparently not approved from the original authors. All what happened with Superman since then is like Dragon Ball GT. A Death Battle (a fair one) should have taken what the original authors stated for their characters, but they took everything they could (or wanted to take) just to make a one-sided battle.

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Originally Posted by Red

Goku doesn't have eras or versions. He's still the same.

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He has different power levels though, right? He has evolved as a character and in his potential. LIKE SUPERMAN. I just want us to stop debating contiguity and which character we are choosing, and move to the actual battles. If you disagree with my Superman list, change it. But I want to get the ball actually rolling...

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

He has different power levels though, right? He has evolved as a character and in his potential. LIKE SUPERMAN. I just want us to stop debating contiguity and which character we are choosing, and move to the actual battles. If you disagree with my Superman list, change it. But I want to get the ball actually rolling...

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Goku has power levels right, but he can change from one to another anytime he wants. He controls his powers. And one level is higher than the other.

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Originally Posted by Red

Goku has power levels right, but he can change from one to another anytime he wants. He controls his powers. And one level is higher than the other.

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Right.... So what I'm SAYING is to pit him against Superman when Goku only had a certain limit in the series/manga! I feel like every Goku vs Superman thread or debate just can't decide which power level, which Superman and what not. Do you catch mah drift here mayne?

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Right.... So what I'm SAYING is to pit him against Superman when Goku only had a certain limit in the series/manga! I feel like every Goku vs Superman thread or debate just can't decide which power level, which Superman and what not. Do you catch mah drift here mayne?

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Read the debate I've been having with Lohuydahutt. There you have my answer.

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Originally Posted by Red

Goku doesn't have eras or versions. He's still the same.



Both authors of Superman are dead now since the 90's. And according to the information they lost the copyrights of superman in the first 10 years against the pre-DC Comics. Their vision of the character was what I already posted and that should be considered canon by you too because all the powers and information that appeared after that was stated by DC Comics and apparently not approved from the original authors. All what happened with Superman since then is like Dragon Ball GT. A Death Battle (a fair one) should have taken what the original authors stated for their characters, but they took everything they could (or wanted to take) just to make a one-sided battle.

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And clearly your set-up making an even more one-sided battle is completely fine because Goku wins right?

Canon is a continuity defined by the current authority of said universe. Since DC has the rights to it and not the deceased writers of the original, they call the shots on it.

Also since I assume the original version falls under the category of "Pre-Crisis Superman" which has been essentially retconned, it's not canon :p

A fair death battle takes all possible canon sources into account so no details that could change the outcome of the battle are ignored. Your "fair" set-up is basically giving one character a significant disadvantage for being a character far too old to have all comics or movies or whatever being made by the same author. Superman's accomplishments are the result of the compilation of multiple minds towards one goal of telling unique and new stories for a character. Oh let's just use only exactly what he did in some of the original stuff, specifically to stifle all of the actual developments he had as a character, that makes things FAIR because clearly using his modest beginnings makes him the DEFINITIVE superman.

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Originally Posted by Lohuydahutt

And clearly your set-up making an even more one-sided battle is completely fine because Goku wins right?

Canon is a continuity defined by the current authority of said universe. Since DC has the rights to it and not the deceased writers of the original, they call the shots on it.

Also since I assume the original version falls under the category of "Pre-Crisis Superman" which has been essentially retconned, it's not canon :p

A fair death battle takes all possible canon sources into account so no details that could change the outcome of the battle are ignored. Your "fair" set-up is basically giving one character a significant disadvantage for being a character far too old to have all comics or movies or whatever being made by the same author. Superman's accomplishments are the result of the compilation of multiple minds towards one goal of telling unique and new stories for a character. Oh let's just use only exactly what he did in some of the original stuff, specifically to stifle all of the actual developments he had as a character, that makes things FAIR because clearly using his modest beginnings makes him the DEFINITIVE superman.

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http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2.../7/73/This.gif

I feel like Red is just making this in Goku's favor, but then disowning DB for doing the same damn thing. I say take Ultimate Supes vs Ultimate Goku and let em duke it out. I felt, though, that DB did the battle fine.

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Originally Posted by Lohuydahutt

And clearly your set-up making an even more one-sided battle is completely fine because Goku wins right?

Canon is a continuity defined by the current authority of said universe. Since DC has the rights to it and not the deceased writers of the original, they call the shots on it.

Also since I assume the original version falls under the category of "Pre-Crisis Superman" which has been essentially retconned, it's not canon :p

A fair death battle takes all possible canon sources into account so no details that could change the outcome of the battle are ignored. Your "fair" set-up is basically giving one character a significant disadvantage for being a character far too old to have all comics or movies or whatever being made by the same author. Superman's accomplishments are the result of the compilation of multiple minds towards one goal of telling unique and new stories for a character. Oh let's just use only exactly what he did in some of the original stuff, specifically to stifle all of the actual developments he had as a character, that makes things FAIR because clearly using his modest beginnings makes him the DEFINITIVE superman.

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I'm not taking on count the advantages or disadvantages. If the original authors still lived and continued the story of superman with their vision, believe me, I'd take on discussion the x ray, the lasers, and everything they might have added. But, they lost it, a company managed superman and now we have the "American way" hero people like. As I said, everything that has happened with Superman since the lost of the copyrights is like Dragon Ball GT. Nothing that the author(s) stated or wanted. If you take on discussion non-canon stuff of course that superman would win even if he winks, and does it sound fair for you?

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Originally Posted by Red

I'm not taking on count the advantages or disadvantages. If the original authors still lived and continued the story of superman with their vision, believe me, I'd take on discussion the x ray, the lasers, and everything they might have added. But, they lost it, a company managed superman and now we have the "American way" hero people like. As I said, everything that has happened with Superman since the lost of the copyrights is like Dragon Ball GT. Nothing that the author(s) stated or wanted. If you take on discussion non-canon stuff of course that superman would win even if he winks, and does it sound fair for you?

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SO lets take different power level Goku's and different incarnations of Supes, and pit them against one another. Whether or not the original creators designed him one way or another, he has evolved, like Goku. Same with Batman. Are you going to say because Bob Kane didn't write nor condone a later incarnation of Batman, that it isn't valid? That's the thing about Manga/Comic book characters. We all have our different versions we prefer, often cherry picking certain traits of different incarnations, as many have done in CBM's.

So I am saying let's try to find some equality for both characters, like Ultimate Supes vs Ultimate Goku, or Superman at his inception vs Goku at his inception, so on and so forth.