Death Battle: Superman vs Goku

[Red]

Sure, but that's basically cherry picking for the ideal version when his character has OBVIOUSLY been updated since then. Limiting superman to just the original superman when you count the original Goku as close to everything he's been in is basically like Thor vs Raiden if they completely ignored all of the feats and shit Thor got from his marvel depiction and just used his original mythology. I mean, he might win anyway but that sort of defeats the point.

I don't get your point. A comparison has to be made from the point of view of their original authors not from what they're based on. Both Goku and Superman are based on something too but I am not comparing them from that point. I'm comparing them from what their respective authors wanted for them in the first place. I already put that Superman's authors wanted, Goku's author wanted for him everything until SSJ God mode and it is explained how he got those powers, which means Goku remains as the original character.

[Myvenusinuranus]

The problem with this stance is A) Goku never quits. That's just his thing. B) Super Saiyan God form is an energy not typical of "ki". I don't believe it would be considered magic in the DBZ world, as Buu is magic and could do nothing against the "God" energy, which is its own form of energy unique to the DBZ world and C) Goku essentially has eternal life by the end of DBZ so the fact that he never gives up kind of limits the process of Superman winning. Now, obviously the Death battle was correct in implying that these characters are somewhat reversals of each other. It is a surprise plot twist to have Superman struggle in a battle, whereas it is usual for Goku, though with the promise that he always wins in the end. It's also obvious that if you were to take a Goku from earlier in the series, say the Saiyan saga, that Goku would easily be destroyed. However, unlike the current Superman, who is more badass than the first Superman from the 1930s, Goku's character has essentially been setup as guy who is always getting better, dead or alive, and by the end of the series it is not hard to believe that Goku has the potential to easily wipe away galaxies. I personally love both characters and have always thought they complimented each other perfectly in an East vs West comic way. I can't wait for this matchup.

[Red]

The problem with this stance is A) Goku never quits. That's just his thing. B) Super Saiyan God form is an energy not typical of "ki". I don't believe it would be considered magic in the DBZ world, as Buu is magic and could do nothing against the "God" energy, which is its own form of energy unique to the DBZ world and C) Goku essentially has eternal life by the end of DBZ so the fact that he never gives up kind of limits the process of Superman winning. Now, obviously the Death battle was correct in implying that these characters are somewhat reversals of each other. It is a surprise plot twist to have Superman struggle in a battle, whereas it is usual for Goku, though with the promise that he always wins in the end. It's also obvious that if you were to take a Goku from earlier in the series, say the Saiyan saga, that Goku would easily be destroyed. However, unlike the current Superman, who is more badass than the first Superman from the 1930s, Goku's character has essentially been setup as guy who is always getting better, dead or alive, and by the end of the series it is not hard to believe that Goku has the potential to easily wipe away galaxies. I personally love both characters and have always thought they complimented each other perfectly in an East vs West comic way. I can't wait for this matchup.

This guy deserves a cookie (Y)

[Lohuydahutt]

I don't get your point. A comparison has to be made from the point of view of their original authors not from what they're based on. Both Goku and Superman are based on something too but I am not comparing them from that point. I'm comparing them from what their respective authors wanted for them in the first place. I already put that Superman's authors wanted, Goku's author wanted for him everything until SSJ God mode and it is explained how he got those powers, which means Goku remains as the original character.

The point is, ignoring other source completely canon source material even if it might get in the way of the original vision might sound idealistic but it does not provide a DEFINITIVE answer in any sense of the word. Sure, Goku would win in that set-up (or depending on the author's role in some of the other things Pre-Crisis superman does, Goku would get raped by a super sneeze) but I don't think pitting can't fly Superman vs everything other than GT Goku is really a fair fight, not just because that one original source material wouldn't stand up too well to Goku, but because it stifles anything else either character might have gotten from those skipped over materials. This set-up leaves WAY more questions than answers, and would not really be true to the spirit of Death Battle at all and thus, is an irrelevant point.

We might as well have Pikachu vs Blanka where Pikachu was one of those lv 3 fat mouses you find in Veridian Forest in Red and Blue just because the original creators left pokémon after that game was made (this is completely hypothetical) and then suddenly every pokémon carries guns. OK, yeah, it might not be what the creators had in mind, but this is Death Battle, they base their information on canon (well, other than non-canon stuff like Super Smash Bros I guess) not some weird moral idealism.

[Red]

The point is, ignoring other source completely canon source material even if it might get in the way of the original vision might sound idealistic but it does not provide a DEFINITIVE answer in any sense of the word. Sure, Goku would win in that set-up (or depending on the author's role in some of the other things Pre-Crisis superman does, Goku would get raped by a super sneeze) but I don't think pitting can't fly Superman vs everything other than GT Goku is really a fair fight, not just because that one original source material wouldn't stand up too well to Goku, but because it stifles anything else either character might have gotten from those skipped over materials. This set-up leaves WAY more questions than answers, and would not really be true to the spirit of Death Battle at all and thus, is an irrelevant point.

We might as well have Pikachu vs Blanka where Pikachu was one of those lv 3 fat mouses you find in Veridian Forest in Red and Blue just because the original creators left pokémon after that game was made (this is completely hypothetical) and then suddenly every pokémon carries guns. OK, yeah, it might not be what the creators had in mind, but this is Death Battle, they base their information on canon (well, other than non-canon stuff like Super Smash Bros I guess) not some weird moral idealism.

You said it ON CANON. What's canon? What the original author wanted for his character. Just an example: Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliet, he wanted them to die by their own hands. Suddenly, years later, Andrew Lloyd Webber decides to instead to let them kill themselves, Romeo and Juliet kill each other after killing their entire family. What's canon here? What shakespeare wrote or what Andrew wrote??? There you go the answer. DC comics (lol) is like the editorial which only publishes the physical form of the story of superman, they re-wrote the original story with new writters that gave Superman his infinite powers. But what the real authors wanted for superman in the very first place has already been posted here. It might not be fair, but we're comparing two fictional characters who have their original authors and visions and for a real comparison I think the POV of the real authors is more than important.

[Batman Heisenberg]

I see whats going on. Why don't we make several battles of the two at different times. I don't know Goku that well, so someone can figure out which Goku can face which Superman.

Pre Crisis Superman at his inception.
Overpowered later pre-crisis Superman
Crisis Superman
Early Post-Crisis Superman
Superman before N52.
Current New 52 Superman.

Now, someone figure out which Goku corresponds to each Supes so we can stop arguing about continuity and actually debate the fricking battles, because while I understand the issue, and also agree we should make sure that we don't have current Goku face old Superman.

[Lohuydahutt]

You said it ON CANON. What's canon? What the original author wanted for his character. Just an example: Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliet, he wanted them to die by their own hands. Suddenly, years later, Andrew Lloyd Webber decides to instead to let them kill themselves, Romeo and Juliet kill each other after killing their entire family. What's canon here? What shakespeare wrote or what Andrew wrote??? There you go the answer. DC comics (lol) is like the editorial which only publishes the physical form of the story of superman, they re-wrote the original story with new writters that gave Superman his infinite powers. But what the real authors wanted for superman in the very first place has already been posted here. It might not be fair, but we're comparing two fictional characters who have their original authors and visions and for a real comparison I think the POV of the real authors is more than important.

Good thing your whole point is based off of a definition of canon that isn't actually the definition of canon. If it was decided by Shakespeare or whatever that Andrew's version was the definitive version of Romeo and Juliet's story, then it's the definitive version of Romeo and Juliet.

"The term 'canon' can be used either as a noun, referring to "the original work from which the fan fiction author borrows," or as an adjective to describe whether or not certain elements are accepted as authoritative parts of the fictional universe." -Wikipedia

It's not about the original vision, but the UP TO DATE information. What the original author had in mind may seem important to you but it means literally nothing in Death Battle. You might as well be arguing the same point about every other Death Battle, but that's simply not what's most important when you're looking for a definitive answer.

[xxDeadxPoolxx]

What is deemed canon is done by the company(in this case, DC). Superheroes change and evolve over time. Look at Batman or Wolverine, or hell even Spiderman. A lot of Death Battles are one sided (Raiden vs Thor, Pikachu vs Blanka, Spiderman vs Batman, etc).

[Lohuydahutt]

What is deemed canon is done by the company(in this case, DC). Superheroes change and evolve over time. Look at Batman or Wolverine, or hell even Spiderman. A lot of Death Battles are one sided (Raiden vs Thor, Pikachu vs Blanka, Spiderman vs Batman, etc).

I wouldn't say Pikachu vs Blanka was that one-sided (not as one-sided as Superman vs Goku anyway )

[xxDeadxPoolxx]

Blanka ATE Pikachu. Can't get much more one sided than that.